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Tall Paul is a rapper with Anisina Abe and Oneida from the Lake Leach Reservation in Minnesota. His new album is called “The Story of Jim Thorpe”. To The Best of Our Knowledge’s Charles Monroe-Kane spoke with him about Thorpe’s legacy, sports and, of course, hip-hop.
Monroe-Kane wanted to know why Jim Thorpe was important to him.
“He was important to me as a native man I was growing up and as a native young man… kinesthetic,” Paul said.
These interview highlights have been edited from the audio version for clarity and length.
tall pole: I watched the NFL and NBA, but I had never seen native superstar athletes. So I got curious and started doing some research and found out about Jim Thorpe in the school library. He was long gone at this point but I needed someone who respected who was native.
Charles Monroe-Kane: Do you remember the first time you saw a photo of Olympic legend Jim Thorpe in the library?
TP: yes. At the time, my family and I lived in a small town called Revel Falls. I went to the school library to do some research and found a book about Jim Thorpe. I don’t remember exactly which book it was, but when I started reading it, he was an Olympic gold medalist, an NFL Hall of Famer, and a major league baseball player. I had never heard of him and no one told me about him. I had to find out about him myself. And it was powerful to know that there was such a person out there to represent us.
CMK: But before I go any further with Jim Thorpe, I’m wondering about you. what is your story like? What’s the story of Tall Paul?
TP: I was born and raised in South Minneapolis. Growing up, I didn’t know much about my father — (I was) a year or two and I see some pictures of him sucking on his toes and things, right? So that was the extent of my knowledge of him. Like I really didn’t know he existed beyond these funny pictures I’ve seen.
I met him a little later, when I was about nine, and it wasn’t the best experience. Although I know him now and we have a good relationship, I would like to introduce him to that history as a preface and then, with his mother and brothers and sisters, and through foster parents, a woman’s mother. Growing up bouncing all over the place as a youngster, through foster homes My mother was in an abusive relationship, so we went to a shelter – that was kind of my background.
I grew up in a negative situation, but I always made the best of it with my friends. We went outside and played a big soccer game. I fell in love with football and found out about Jim Thorpe.
I started rapping when I was around 14. I started freestyling for my friends and started writing raps after watching his videos on MTV Music.
Fast forward — I was doing it all for like five, six, seven years and then I got sober. I needed something to pick up and spend time with. So I thought, ‘Okay, I’m going to try this rap because it’s something I’ve been passionate about all my life.’
I started rapping, getting beats from local producers, spending time in the studio and getting into hip-hop in general. And as we went along with it, it made me want to go back to Jim Thorpe. I needed to make an album about him.
I think it’s important to support his legacy, and connect his legacy to something like hip-hop, which is widely appreciated around the world. I feel that just being attached to such a place will be very useful in getting to know him.
Excerpt from “Keep in Keeping On”
stallion man handle
adolescent on the street
in the Texas Panhandle,
The goal was to tame horses.
never seen anything in the wild
I was saddled and could not ride.
That’s one of my accomplishments.
A boyhood to be proud of forever,
Besides that, he went back to pops
em team,
Many crops were home grown and chopped
He’s Em’s cream,
Attend Garden Grove School
and became a star player
Settlers from Carlisle
Come to town later,
Jim’s resilience was great
In sickness he will kill it,
he passed the class
While feeling all these feelings,
Besides, he was fearless
The neighbor’s bull was just staggering
So all his friends were just peeling
But he took aim and stuck to it.
with a bow and arrow,
Like a born hero,
Hiram paid Dinero
To the neighbors for the sake of fairness,
proud of Jim’s bravery
Yet he demanded to be careful,
If the father is the father, the child is also the child
bad for bones and marrow
Chorus (Tanaya Winder)
The bright road continues
If you dig deep,
hurt through pain
it can eat you alive,
Don’t lose your stride or grip.
you fight for your will
go on, go on
and many times
CMK: Are you mad? Is this album mad?
TP: There were definitely moments of anger when writing this album. Think about the many things Jim Thorpe had to go through, the history of boarding school and its beginnings. I had to talk, look, dress, walk and talk like a “white man”.
There was anger. And that applies not only to this album, but to my entire life of learning about native history.
Excerpt from “Oran NDNZ”
First Poem (Twin City Tone)
I represent
indigenous excellence
easy to obtain
in the kitchen i
Cook this, rest on your pee,
rest in peace to your ancestors
if you are it came before
don’t look up
What are you aiming for?are at war
Since Columbus landed
arrowhead on your head
Now I’m just aiming for four,
What are you waiting for?
I burn everything that’s too hot,
F— you f— your team
F—your mascot,
trash story trash story
Pass by, but don’t look.
You can tell by the vibe
I shook everything,
they wrote a book
Hiding the truth, it’s all a lie
next summer may bring
coupe out it’s all eyes
to me,
Tony
and i’m flying
like an eagle’s feather
red poet representative
A word to the tall pole,
4th Place & Our Goal
against everyone
Chorus (Tall Pole)
It’s Aboriginal Excellence
upon landing,
pass the competition
Too late to run now.
style without hesitation
One cut of play,
some indian players
Turn singles into home runs,
rebirth of greatness
In the name of Uhlan,
they play games
sewn up like shoelaces,
squad on track
native baby wu tan,
still find em with people
lower than fruit hang
TP: You see, Charles, Jim Thorpe, means what I call “Indigenous Excellence.” It embodies the human spirit, it embodies all our flaws, yet it is legendary and great. That’s what Jim Thorpe shows me.
tall pole (freestyle)
All I hear is chiefs, but they’re all long gone
I wish I could have seen you playing baseball on TV,
i hope you get the same notoriety
Mass media to all other athletes
I needed someone great like me
Jim Thorpe, you could be my Muhammad Ali.
Suffering from alcoholism like P,
You don’t spit both in college like G.
My focus is not there maybe we both got a B
You’re the star of RB, I skip smoking wood
When I finally calmed down, I became an MC.
Ruining the stage because I care what people think
I needed your influence I don’t care what people think
Like I feel the great man I needed that drink
Finished school and ran the liquid down the sink
Now I have to be you for the kids who want me to be
CMK: Ugh, damn it. So that’s what your album is for. So that (sort of) means you’re Jim Thorpe’s legacy, right?
TP: yes. I think that’s how it works—the so-called torch passage. So are all the other people doing great things in the Native community. We are indeed the legacy of our ancestors and elders who have done great things before us.
Excerpt from “Oran NDNZ”
Anishinabe with
Howdena Saunee in my blood,
why is fake
Duplicating roots in the mud,
this government structure
to imitate their ancestors,
they fundamentally failed
By sickening their ham fetchers,
our matrilineal system
Guaranteed the health of our clan
Patriarch of Europeon
City insures spam stretchers,
forget to walk on water
on which we grow our food,
We picked us up with Bootstrap
They generalize loopholes,
Throw away the lazy Indian
imply outside the door,
Toting flow known to force
Raise the souls of your fellow natives,
my brother got uran
Indian in his genes
his great-grandfather John Baptiste
The Thunder play for JT,
only native team
Gathered in the NFL,
that rap game gym
Soap is here with a story to tell
it just makes me stronger
with some native poets,
The spirit of Bright Path is in me
yeah he probably wrote this
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